00:00:00 <scribenick> PRESENT: baojie, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Michael Schneider, MarkusK_, Peter_Patel-Schneider, bijan, bmotik , Ivan, uli, Alan Ruttenberg, Zhe, Achille, msmith, sandro
00:00:00 <scribenick> REGRETS: Ian Horrocks, Elisa Kendall, Evan Wallace, Rinke Hoekstra
00:00:00 <scribenick> CHAIR: Alan Ruttenberg
18:02:47 <alanr> alanr has changed the topic to: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.01.21/Agenda
Alan Ruttenberg: alanr has changed the topic to: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.01.21/Agenda ←
18:06:05 <sandro> scribe: jie
(Scribe set to Jie Bao)
18:06:15 <Jie> Topic: Admin
18:06:15 <Jie> Subtopic: Agenda amendments?
18:06:18 <alanr> http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-01-14
Alan Ruttenberg: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/meeting/2009-01-14 ←
18:06:20 <Jie> Sub topic: Preious minutes
Sub topic: Preious minutes ←
18:06:27 <bijan> I have a problem
Bijan Parsia: I have a problem ←
18:06:47 <bijan> Christine Golbreich: we should vote now becasue last time we postponed it because bijan was not there
Bijan Parsia: Christine Golbreich: we should vote now becasue last time we postponed it because bijan was not there ←
18:07:26 <Jie> bijan: problem on vote on Manchester Sytnax as a note
Bijan Parsia: problem on vote on Manchester Sytnax as a note ←
18:07:42 <Jie> bijan: it is not time critical to determine this issue
Bijan Parsia: it is not time critical to determine this issue ←
18:08:01 <Jie> bijan: I suggest to postponed it
Bijan Parsia: I suggest to postponed it ←
18:08:38 <sandro> alan: What Christine meant, I think, is that we had postponed it for only one week. So we postponed because Bijan wasn't there, but we only postponed for one week.
Alan Ruttenberg: What Christine meant, I think, is that we had postponed it for only one week. So we postponed because Bijan wasn't there, but we only postponed for one week. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:08:44 <alanr> ack Achille
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Achille ←
18:09:07 <msmith> yes, my recollection matches achille's
Mike Smith: yes, my recollection matches achille's ←
18:09:10 <MarkusK_> +1 to Achille, that is what Christine tried to express
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Achille, that is what Christine tried to express ←
18:09:19 <sandro> achille: I was scribe. Christine wanted to vote then because she didn't want it postponed again and again.
Achille Fokoue: I was scribe. Christine wanted to vote then because she didn't want it postponed again and again. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:09:20 <uli> I agree with Achille's memory of this
Uli Sattler: I agree with Achille's memory of this ←
18:09:53 <Jie> Alan: we will do it next week
Alan Ruttenberg: we will do it next week ←
18:10:36 <sandro> alan: let's not approve the minutes yet, given no one expressing an opinion, other than this issue about what Christine said.
Alan Ruttenberg: let's not approve the minutes yet, given no one expressing an opinion, other than this issue about what Christine said. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:10:41 <Jie> Subtopic: Actions
18:11:14 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:11:25 <Jie> Subsubtopic: Action 247
18:11:46 <Jie> Alan: don't have time to do it, will try to finish next week
Alan Ruttenberg: don't have time to do it, will try to finish next week ←
18:12:17 <sandro> ADD YOURSELF TO http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F5_People
Sandro Hawke: ADD YOURSELF TO http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F5_People ←
18:12:18 <pfps> pfps: several documents depend on the Manchester syntax, so there soon needs to be a final determination of what is going on here
Peter Patel-Schneider: several documents depend on the Manchester syntax, so there soon needs to be a final determination of what is going on here [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←
18:12:23 <Jie> Topic Reivews of LC documents
Topic Reivews of LC documents ←
18:12:31 <Jie> Alan: we don't have many
Alan Ruttenberg: we don't have many ←
18:12:40 <Jie> subtopic: F2F5
18:13:05 <bijan> I'm not sure we need it
Bijan Parsia: I'm not sure we need it ←
18:13:23 <pfps> I don't need much (if any) lead time to be there.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't need much (if any) lead time to be there. ←
18:14:06 <Jie> bijan: i'm not sure if we need it
Bijan Parsia: i'm not sure if we need it ←
18:14:21 <Jie> ... it is an expensive trip also
... it is an expensive trip also ←
18:14:48 <pfps> hopefully we will be able to get good facilities for remote participation
Peter Patel-Schneider: hopefully we will be able to get good facilities for remote participation ←
18:14:48 <sandro> q+ agenda topics
Sandro Hawke: q+ agenda topics ←
18:15:02 <Jie> bijan: unless we have major changes
Bijan Parsia: unless we have major changes ←
18:15:20 <bijan> Tests are easy to do offline
Bijan Parsia: Tests are easy to do offline ←
18:15:21 <Jie> Sandro: we have big test cases to go through
Sandro Hawke: we have big test cases to go through ←
18:15:35 <bijan> I definitely wouldn't go to a f2f in the States to do tests :)
Bijan Parsia: I definitely wouldn't go to a f2f in the States to do tests :) ←
18:15:39 <Jie> if nothing else, we can have two days to get the tests done
if nothing else, we can have two days to get the tests done ←
18:15:42 <sandro> :-)
Sandro Hawke: :-) ←
18:15:45 <bijan> How about a vote mechanism in the wiki for the tests
Bijan Parsia: How about a vote mechanism in the wiki for the tests ←
18:16:12 <sandro> the thing on tests is getting people to spend the time on them.
Sandro Hawke: the thing on tests is getting people to spend the time on them. ←
18:16:19 <Jie> Alan: let decide about F2F5 next week
Alan Ruttenberg: let decide about F2F5 next week ←
18:16:25 <Jie> Topic: Last Call comments
18:16:57 <sandro> http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/Responses_to_Last_Call_Comments
Sandro Hawke: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/Responses_to_Last_Call_Comments ←
18:17:10 <Jie> Alan: let's go through the comments page
Alan Ruttenberg: let's go through the comments page ←
18:17:27 <Jie> Subtopic: Comment 1: Alan Rector
18:17:27 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:17:38 <Jie> Peter: I'm worried about it
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm worried about it ←
18:17:53 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:17:55 <Jie> It includes changes to the spec that is not operational yet
It includes changes to the spec that is not operational yet ←
18:18:39 <alanr> http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/ALR1
Alan Ruttenberg: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/ALR1 ←
18:18:42 <sandro> +1 don't say we're changing the spec until the change is fully done.
Sandro Hawke: +1 don't say we're changing the spec until the change is fully done. ←
18:19:34 <Zakim> +Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe ←
18:19:45 <Jie> Peter: if there are changes, we need somehow track it
Peter Patel-Schneider: if there are changes, we need somehow track it ←
18:21:10 <Jie> bijan: what you want us to do with this page?
Bijan Parsia: what you want us to do with this page? ←
18:21:52 <Jie> Peter: if anybody make proposal to change, he/she has to make the change trackable
Peter Patel-Schneider: if anybody make proposal to change, he/she has to make the change trackable ←
18:22:08 <Jie> Peter: voteable
Peter Patel-Schneider: voteable ←
18:22:37 <Jie> Peter: the WG has to vote for a change
Peter Patel-Schneider: the WG has to vote for a change ←
18:23:58 <sandro> agenda-
Sandro Hawke: agenda- ←
18:24:07 <sandro> q=schneid
Sandro Hawke: q=schneid ←
18:24:08 <Jie> bijan: I think we should reject
Bijan Parsia: I think we should reject ←
18:24:12 <sandro> queue=schneid
Sandro Hawke: queue=schneid ←
18:24:57 <uli> q+
Uli Sattler: q+ ←
18:25:43 <Jie> the workaround is sufficient
the workaround is sufficient ←
18:25:49 <alanr> ack schneid
Alan Ruttenberg: ack schneid ←
18:26:20 <Jie> Schneid: No change
Michael Schneider: No change ←
18:26:47 <Jie> no need to introduce a new language feature
no need to introduce a new language feature ←
18:26:49 <bijan> One could even annotate the naming axiom saying "this is for annotation purposes, not modeling"
Bijan Parsia: One could even annotate the naming axiom saying "this is for annotation purposes, not modeling" ←
18:26:50 <alanr> q+ to ask whether named class workaround has performance impact
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask whether named class workaround has performance impact ←
18:26:58 <alanr> ack uli
Alan Ruttenberg: ack uli ←
18:27:13 <Jie> Uli: I chatted with Alan Rector
Uli Sattler: I chatted with Alan Rector ←
18:27:39 <alanr> q-
Alan Ruttenberg: q- ←
18:27:40 <bijan> If the change doesn't address his use cases, we should reject it
Bijan Parsia: If the change doesn't address his use cases, we should reject it ←
18:28:38 <Jie> Alan: then we should respond that there is a workaround to this issue
Alan Ruttenberg: then we should respond that there is a workaround to this issue ←
18:29:05 <schneid> schneid: I would keep things as they are, since naming class expressions is possible anyway, and can be used. Maybe we put an informative note in our spec to inform people about the nameing "trick"
Michael Schneider: I would keep things as they are, since naming class expressions is possible anyway, and can be used. Maybe we put an informative note in our spec to inform people about the nameing "trick" [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
18:29:09 <uli> I had a chat with Alan Rector and he seemed to be willing to accept that his proposed change would only help him to make work-arounds, but not really provide a solution. As a consequence, he indicated that he wouldn't insist on this change
Uli Sattler: I had a chat with Alan Rector and he seemed to be willing to accept that his proposed change would only help him to make work-arounds, but not really provide a solution. As a consequence, he indicated that he wouldn't insist on this change ←
18:29:25 <uli> ?
Uli Sattler: ? ←
18:29:28 <alanr> PROPOSED: Respond to ALR1 on the basis of Ian suggestions for using named classes as a workaround
PROPOSED: Respond to ALR1 on the basis of Ian suggestions for using named classes as a workaround ←
18:29:34 <pfps> q+
18:29:56 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:30:20 <alanr> PROPOSED: Respond to ALR1 on the basis of the suggestions for workarounds
PROPOSED: Respond to ALR1 on the basis of the suggestions for workarounds ←
18:30:29 <pfps> ok
18:30:37 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:30:39 <pfps> +1
18:30:40 <Bernardo> +1
18:30:41 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:30:41 <Jie> +1
+1 ←
18:30:42 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:30:43 <Zhe> +1
18:30:43 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:30:44 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
18:30:45 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:30:46 <bijan> +!
Bijan Parsia: +! ←
18:30:49 <msmith> +1
Mike Smith: +1 ←
18:30:55 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:30:59 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
18:31:04 <alanr> RESOLVED: Respond to ALR1 on the basis of Ian suggestions for using named classes as a workaround
RESOLVED: Respond to ALR1 on the basis of Ian suggestions for using named classes as a workaround ←
18:31:12 <bijan> I'm writing one right now
Bijan Parsia: I'm writing one right now ←
18:31:25 <bijan> on the page
Bijan Parsia: on the page ←
18:31:27 <bijan> Already
Bijan Parsia: Already ←
18:31:52 <bijan> not saved yet :)
Bijan Parsia: not saved yet :) ←
18:32:00 <Jie> Subtopic: comment COL1
18:32:05 <alanr> Action: Bijan to draft response to ALR1
ACTION: Bijan to draft response to ALR1 ←
18:32:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-265 - Draft response to ALR1 [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-01-28].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-265 - Draft response to ALR1 [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-01-28]. ←
18:32:18 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:32:20 <Jie> Subtopic: comment MS1
18:32:28 <alanr> http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MS1
Alan Ruttenberg: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MS1 ←
18:32:53 <pfps> q+
18:32:58 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:34:00 <alanr> action: pfps to provide fix to MS1 in RDF Mapping and put diff on http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MS1.
ACTION: pfps to provide fix to MS1 in RDF Mapping and put diff on http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MS1. ←
18:34:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-266 - Provide fix to MS1 in RDF Mapping and put diff on http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MS1. [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-01-28].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-266 - Provide fix to MS1 in RDF Mapping and put diff on http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MS1. [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-01-28]. ←
18:34:03 <pfps> process is then to change the document and put a diff into the reponse page (along with rationale, I guess)
Peter Patel-Schneider: process is then to change the document and put a diff into the reponse page (along with rationale, I guess) ←
18:34:20 <pfps> q+
18:34:23 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
18:35:01 <alanr> PROPOSED: Peter will propose fix for MS1 in the form of edits to the RDF Mapping Document
PROPOSED: Peter will propose fix for MS1 in the form of edits to the RDF Mapping Document ←
18:35:02 <Jie> Peter: we need to vote on it, if I gonna to work on it
Peter Patel-Schneider: we need to vote on it, if I gonna to work on it ←
18:35:06 <pfps> +1
18:35:10 <msmith> +1
Mike Smith: +1 ←
18:35:11 <Jie> +1
+1 ←
18:35:11 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:35:11 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:35:12 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:35:13 <Bernardo> +1
18:35:14 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
18:35:18 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:35:19 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:35:21 <bijan> +!
Bijan Parsia: +! ←
18:35:22 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:35:23 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
18:35:26 <alanr> RESOLVED: Peter will propose fix for MS1 in the form of edits to the RDF Mapping Document
RESOLVED: Peter will propose fix for MS1 in the form of edits to the RDF Mapping Document ←
18:35:28 <Zhe> +1
18:35:45 <Jie> Subtopic: MD1
18:35:52 <alanr> http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MD1
Alan Ruttenberg: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MD1 ←
18:36:24 <alanr> lost my connection
Alan Ruttenberg: lost my connection ←
18:36:24 <Jie> Alan: anybody knows the difference between Unicode 3.0/5.0?
Alan Ruttenberg: anybody knows the difference between Unicode 3.0/5.0? ←
18:36:26 <alanr> back in a sec
Alan Ruttenberg: back in a sec ←
18:36:37 <bijan> Lots and lots of characters
Bijan Parsia: Lots and lots of characters ←
18:36:40 <pfps> Was there a response from Martin?
Peter Patel-Schneider: Was there a response from Martin? ←
18:36:43 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
18:37:18 <bijan> No
Bijan Parsia: No ←
18:37:22 <Jie> schneid: I wonder if it is necessary to have Unicode version mentioned
Michael Schneider: I wonder if it is necessary to have Unicode version mentioned ←
18:37:23 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:37:30 <schneid> q-
Michael Schneider: q- ←
18:37:45 <sandro> I guess it should be latest version, otherwise we will have
Sandro Hawke: I guess it should be latest version, otherwise we will have ←
18:37:45 <sandro> some people wondering whether they can use the latest characters.
Sandro Hawke: some people wondering whether they can use the latest characters. ←
18:37:45 <sandro> For more details, please see http://dristachi.site/TR/charmod/#sec-RefUnicode.
Sandro Hawke: For more details, please see http://dristachi.site/TR/charmod/#sec-RefUnicode. ←
18:37:50 <Jie> Sandro: I talked with Martin Duerst
Sandro Hawke: I talked with Martin Duerst ←
18:38:02 <schneid> schneid: wonders whether it would be allowed to generically refer to the "latest Unicode version"
Michael Schneider: wonders whether it would be allowed to generically refer to the "latest Unicode version" [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ] ←
18:38:19 <Jie> Alan: we need somebody to read this
Alan Ruttenberg: we need somebody to read this ←
18:38:19 <msmith> q+ to respond to michael about a specific version
Mike Smith: q+ to respond to michael about a specific version ←
18:38:24 <bijan> I'm finished my Alan Rector action
Bijan Parsia: I'm finished my Alan Rector action ←
18:38:24 <alanr> ack msmith
Alan Ruttenberg: ack msmith ←
18:38:24 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to respond to michael about a specific version
Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to respond to michael about a specific version ←
18:38:30 <sandro> (I was quoting from private e-mail from Martin Duerst there)
Sandro Hawke: (I was quoting from private e-mail from Martin Duerst there) ←
18:38:54 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:39:08 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:39:10 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:39:11 <Jie> Msmith: we need address a specific version of Unicode for datatype implementation
Mike Smith: we need address a specific version of Unicode for datatype implementation ←
18:39:37 <Jie> Boris: one problem is whether the set of characters is infinite
Boris Motik: one problem is whether the set of characters is infinite ←
18:40:11 <Jie> if the number of characters in Unicode changes across versions
if the number of characters in Unicode changes across versions ←
18:40:46 <Jie> it is possible that one consistent ontology to be inconsistent when using a different version of Unicode
it is possible that one consistent ontology to be inconsistent when using a different version of Unicode ←
18:40:52 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:40:53 <msmith> ok, it seems I remembered it incompletely then. thanks for clarifying Boris.
Mike Smith: ok, it seems I remembered it incompletely then. thanks for clarifying Boris. ←
18:41:32 <schneid> hey, we have a new testcase :)
Michael Schneider: hey, we have a new testcase :) ←
18:42:13 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:42:40 <schneid> but referring to the "latest version" will also refer to a finite alphabet (at every time)
Michael Schneider: but referring to the "latest version" will also refer to a finite alphabet (at every time) ←
18:42:43 <Jie> bijan: at two places we deal with Unicode
Bijan Parsia: at two places we deal with Unicode ←
18:42:48 <bmotik> yes
Boris Motik: yes ←
18:42:52 <Jie> Datatype, and syntax
Datatype, and syntax ←
18:43:03 <schneid> IRIs refer also to Unicode, right?
Michael Schneider: IRIs refer also to Unicode, right? ←
18:43:36 <Jie> in the syntax, if we don't address unicode version, there may be gap between functional syntax and other syntaxes
in the syntax, if we don't address unicode version, there may be gap between functional syntax and other syntaxes ←
18:44:19 <Jie> e.g., XML only allows certain versions of Unicode
e.g., XML only allows certain versions of Unicode ←
18:44:25 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:44:28 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:45:12 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:45:13 <Jie> Ivan: Martin's question is what version we use, and he suggests 5.0
Ivan Herman: Martin's question is what version we use, and he suggests 5.0 ←
18:45:26 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:45:32 <Jie> We just need to respond we use the latest version
We just need to respond we use the latest version ←
18:46:07 <Jie> Bijan: XML is tied to Unicode 3
Bijan Parsia: XML is tied to Unicode 3 ←
18:46:45 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:46:53 <ivan> [[[C064 [S] All generic references to the Unicode Standard [Unicode] must refer to the latest version of the Unicode Standard available at the date of publication of the containing specification.]]]
Ivan Herman: [[[C064 [S] All generic references to the Unicode Standard [Unicode] must refer to the latest version of the Unicode Standard available at the date of publication of the containing specification.]]] ←
18:46:59 <Jie> Sandro: is it the latest version for now, or latest version ever?
Sandro Hawke: is it the latest version for now, or latest version ever? ←
18:47:30 <alanr> q+ to ask why not make is finite but 2^32
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask why not make is finite but 2^32 ←
18:49:12 <Jie> alan: we need list on the page the points we need address
Alan Ruttenberg: we need list on the page the points we need address ←
18:49:40 <Jie> ... on Bijan, Boris, Sandro
... on Bijan, Boris, Sandro ←
18:50:16 <bijan> working on it
Bijan Parsia: working on it ←
18:50:39 <bijan> Er..dunno
Bijan Parsia: Er..dunno ←
18:50:43 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:50:45 <bijan> I'll write and see what happens ;)
Bijan Parsia: I'll write and see what happens ;) ←
18:50:50 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
18:50:50 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask why not make it finite but 2^32
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask why not make it finite but 2^32 ←
18:50:57 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:51:18 <sandro> ACTION: Bijan to write about unicode versioning issue
ACTION: Bijan to write about unicode versioning issue ←
18:51:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-267 - Write about unicode versioning issue [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-01-28].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-267 - Write about unicode versioning issue [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-01-28]. ←
18:51:27 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:51:36 <Jie> Boris: after reading the note, I agree that the infinite supply of characters is not relevant
Boris Motik: after reading the note, I agree that the infinite supply of characters is not relevant ←
18:51:47 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:52:02 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:52:03 <bmotik> -q
Boris Motik: -q ←
18:52:10 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:52:37 <bijan> I've got it, ivan
Bijan Parsia: I've got it, ivan ←
18:52:41 <alanr> ack Bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Bijan ←
18:53:11 <alanr> http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/JH1
Alan Ruttenberg: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/JH1 ←
18:53:13 <Jie> Subtopic: JH1
18:53:35 <Jie> Alan: it is about better documentation of key
Alan Ruttenberg: it is about better documentation of key ←
18:53:50 <Jie> ... Syntax editors
... Syntax editors ←
18:53:54 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:54:29 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:54:32 <Jie> bijan: Jim is over-stating. I don't know if to put it into Syntax
Bijan Parsia: Jim is over-stating. I don't know if to put it into Syntax ←
18:54:35 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
18:54:37 <Jie> ... maybe Rationale
... maybe Rationale ←
18:54:39 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:54:45 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:54:52 <Jie> Boris: I don't understand the problem of this comment
Boris Motik: I don't understand the problem of this comment ←
18:54:59 <alanr> they didn't grok the feature
Alan Ruttenberg: they didn't grok the feature ←
18:55:27 <Jie> bijan: The problem is that they assume key is global
Bijan Parsia: The problem is that they assume key is global ←
18:55:34 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:55:36 <uli> ...but they have been now convinced, haven't they?
Uli Sattler: ...but they have been now convinced, haven't they? ←
18:55:50 <alanr> yes, they want some documentation so someone else doesn't make the same mistake
Alan Ruttenberg: yes, they want some documentation so someone else doesn't make the same mistake ←
18:56:32 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
18:56:37 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
18:56:46 <uli> I'd prefer new features and rationale
Uli Sattler: I'd prefer new features and rationale ←
18:56:50 <Jie> Alan: maybe document it in Primer or Rationale
Alan Ruttenberg: maybe document it in Primer or Rationale ←
18:57:10 <schneid> +1 to Ivan, this is the document meant to be read if one wants to know about the new features
Michael Schneider: +1 to Ivan, this is the document meant to be read if one wants to know about the new features ←
18:57:20 <uli> a simple "please note that "keyfor(C P)" only concerns instances of C, not everything
Uli Sattler: a simple "please note that "keyfor(C P)" only concerns instances of C, not everything ←
18:57:35 <msmith> editors of that doc?
Mike Smith: editors of that doc? ←
18:57:46 <alanr> PROPOSED: Respond to JH1 by adding documentation in F&R and then sending that documentation in the response.
PROPOSED: Respond to JH1 by adding documentation in F&R and then sending that documentation in the response. ←
18:57:50 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:57:54 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:57:57 <Bernardo> +1
18:57:58 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:57:59 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
18:58:00 <Zhe> +1
18:58:00 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
18:58:02 <pfps> +1
18:58:02 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
18:58:02 <Jie> 0
0 ←
18:58:03 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:58:10 <alanr> RESOLVED: Respond to JH1 by adding documentation in F&R and then sending that documentation in the response
RESOLVED: Respond to JH1 by adding documentation in F&R and then sending that documentation in the response ←
18:58:11 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:58:11 <msmith> +0 (neither christine or evan is here)
Mike Smith: +0 (neither christine or evan is here) ←
18:58:15 <bijan> Rereading the syntax, I can see how o ne *might* find "A key axiom of the form HasKey( owl:Thing OPE ) is similar to the axiom InverseFunctionalProperty( OPE ); the main difference is that the first axiom is applicable only to individuals that are explicitly named in an ontology, while the second axiom is also applicable to individuals whose existence is implied by existential quantification. The structure of such axiom is shown in Figure 17."
Bijan Parsia: Rereading the syntax, I can see how o ne *might* find "A key axiom of the form HasKey( owl:Thing OPE ) is similar to the axiom InverseFunctionalProperty( OPE ); the main difference is that the first axiom is applicable only to individuals that are explicitly named in an ontology, while the second axiom is also applicable to individuals whose existence is implied by existential quantification. The structure of such axiom is shown in Figure 17." ←
18:58:17 <bijan> a bit misleading
Bijan Parsia: a bit misleading ←
18:58:23 <bijan> I can add a bit of clarificatory text
Bijan Parsia: I can add a bit of clarificatory text ←
18:59:23 <Jie> bijan: I can add a single sentence in Syntax
Bijan Parsia: I can add a single sentence in Syntax ←
19:00:11 <alanr> PROPOSED: also address JH1 by Bijan adding a clarificatory sentence to the syntax specification and passing that on in the response.
PROPOSED: also address JH1 by Bijan adding a clarificatory sentence to the syntax specification and passing that on in the response. ←
19:00:13 <bmotik> I'd add this sentence in the example that Jim identified.
Boris Motik: I'd add this sentence in the example that Jim identified. ←
19:00:25 <Jie> +1
+1 ←
19:00:26 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
19:00:27 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
19:00:29 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
19:00:31 <Zhe> +1
19:00:34 <Bernardo> +1
19:00:34 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
19:00:37 <pfps> +1
19:00:38 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
19:00:38 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
19:00:40 <schneid> +1
Michael Schneider: +1 ←
19:00:41 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
19:00:43 <msmith> +1
Mike Smith: +1 ←
19:00:45 <alanr> RESOLVED: also address JH1 by Bijan adding a clarificatory sentence to the syntax specification and passing that on in the response
RESOLVED: also address JH1 by Bijan adding a clarificatory sentence to the syntax specification and passing that on in the response ←
19:01:18 <alanr> Action: Bijan to add sentence to address JH1. Add diff to http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/JH1
ACTION: Bijan to add sentence to address JH1. Add diff to http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/JH1 ←
19:01:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-268 - Add sentence to address JH1. Add diff to http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/JH1 [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-01-28].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-268 - Add sentence to address JH1. Add diff to http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/JH1 [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-01-28]. ←
19:01:41 <bijan> what's up with features and rationales?
Bijan Parsia: what's up with features and rationales? ←
19:01:55 <bijan> Oh sorry, I see
Bijan Parsia: Oh sorry, I see ←
19:02:27 <alanr> Action: Alan to mail Christine & Evan about resolution to JH1
ACTION: Alan to mail Christine & Evan about resolution to JH1 ←
19:02:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Mail Christine & Evan about resolution to JH1 [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2009-01-28].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-269 - Mail Christine & Evan about resolution to JH1 [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2009-01-28]. ←
19:02:40 <Jie> Subtopic: MS2
19:02:48 <alanr> http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MS2
Alan Ruttenberg: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/MS2 ←
19:03:11 <schneid> q+
Michael Schneider: q+ ←
19:03:34 <alanr> ack schneid
Alan Ruttenberg: ack schneid ←
19:04:26 <Jie> schneid: I do not understand the meaning of the phrase "arbitrary object" here
Michael Schneider: I do not understand the meaning of the phrase "arbitrary object" here ←
19:05:18 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:06:04 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
19:06:45 <Jie> Boris: I phrased like this because the values are not from a datatype
Boris Motik: I phrased like this because the values are not from a datatype ←
19:07:16 <Jie> ... but it is hard to say where they are from
... but it is hard to say where they are from ←
19:07:24 <alanr> It has to be serialized, at least
Alan Ruttenberg: It has to be serialized, at least ←
19:08:00 <Jie> Boris: datatypes can be extended
Boris Motik: datatypes can be extended ←
19:08:13 <Jie> ... it can't be predefined
... it can't be predefined ←
19:08:38 <pfps> the question (I think) is whether the value can be an object identifier (as opposed to a literal)
Peter Patel-Schneider: the question (I think) is whether the value can be an object identifier (as opposed to a literal) ←
19:09:05 <Jie> schneid: is OWL 2 datatype map close to that?
Michael Schneider: is OWL 2 datatype map close to that? ←
19:09:20 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:09:58 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
19:11:22 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:12:03 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:12:06 <Jie> schneid: the problem is that if there is no domain, in semantics we don't have an interpretation function
Michael Schneider: the problem is that if there is no domain, in semantics we don't have an interpretation function ←
19:12:24 <Zakim> -Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan ←
19:12:32 <alanr> phone dropped. calling back in
Alan Ruttenberg: phone dropped. calling back in ←
19:12:39 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
19:12:42 <Zakim> +Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan ←
19:12:43 <alanr> back
Alan Ruttenberg: back ←
19:13:01 <ivan> ack alanr
Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←
19:13:26 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
19:14:38 <Jie> Boris: schneid: your suggestion may lead to a family of semantics
Boris Motik: schneid: your suggestion may lead to a family of semantics ←
19:15:29 <Jie> Alan: it is rather technical, maybe go on on mail list
Alan Ruttenberg: it is rather technical, maybe go on on mail list ←
19:16:53 <Jie> bijan: can we close this comment with a new comment that is closer to what you thought?
Bijan Parsia: can we close this comment with a new comment that is closer to what you thought? ←
19:17:57 <Jie> Subtopic: test cases
19:18:02 <bijan> profile validation?
Bijan Parsia: profile validation? ←
19:18:04 <bijan> Or species?
Bijan Parsia: Or species? ←
19:18:14 <bijan> A profile recognizer is coming
Bijan Parsia: A profile recognizer is coming ←
19:18:17 <bijan> well, I didn't know ;)
Bijan Parsia: well, I didn't know ;) ←
19:18:27 <Jie> Subtopic: IH1
19:18:49 <Jie> Alan: on global restrictions
Alan Ruttenberg: on global restrictions ←
19:19:12 <bijan> Why?
Bijan Parsia: Why? ←
19:19:14 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
19:19:24 <Jie> Alan: I'm not against adding examples
Alan Ruttenberg: I'm not against adding examples ←
19:19:30 <alanr> ack Bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Bijan ←
19:20:04 <Jie> bijan: OK, it is editorial
Bijan Parsia: OK, it is editorial ←
19:20:06 <pfps> q+
19:20:36 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
19:21:26 <bijan> Seriously?
Bijan Parsia: Seriously? ←
19:21:38 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
19:21:42 <Jie> Peter: editorial changes could cause problems
Peter Patel-Schneider: editorial changes could cause problems ←
19:22:01 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
19:22:55 <Jie> bijan: examples are not normative, I don't think they will cause problems
Bijan Parsia: examples are not normative, I don't think they will cause problems ←
19:25:22 <alanr> PROPOSAL: Editors of syntax document will add examples for section 11, in coordination with Ivan. To be reviewed by WG after done.
PROPOSED: Editors of syntax document will add examples for section 11, in coordination with Ivan. To be reviewed by WG after done. ←
19:25:30 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
19:25:32 <Jie> Bernardo: I can work with Boris offline on examples
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I can work with Boris offline on examples ←
19:25:33 <pfps> +1
19:25:34 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
19:25:34 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
19:25:35 <Jie> =1
=1 ←
19:25:37 <Jie> +1
+1 ←
19:25:37 <Zhe> +1
19:25:48 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
19:25:57 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
19:26:03 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
19:26:03 <Achille> 1
Achille Fokoue: 1 ←
19:26:09 <msmith> +1
Mike Smith: +1 ←
19:26:13 <alanr> RESOLVED: IH1 to be resolved by editors of syntax document will add examples for section 11, in coordination with Ivan. To be reviewed by WG after done.
RESOLVED: IH1 to be resolved by editors of syntax document will add examples for section 11, in coordination with Ivan. To be reviewed by WG after done. ←
19:26:49 <bmotik> ACTION: bmotik2 to Add new examples in response to IH1
ACTION: bmotik2 to Add new examples in response to IH1 ←
19:26:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-270 - Add new examples in response to IH1 [on Boris Motik - due 2009-01-28].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-270 - Add new examples in response to IH1 [on Boris Motik - due 2009-01-28]. ←
19:27:13 <Jie> Subtopic: IH2
19:27:09 <alanr> http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/IH2
Alan Ruttenberg: http://dristachi.site/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/IH2 ←
19:28:05 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
19:28:09 <alanr> ack ivan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ivan ←
19:28:16 <Jie> Alan: it says abstract should be stand-alone
Alan Ruttenberg: it says abstract should be stand-alone ←
19:29:05 <bijan> +1 to making abstract applicable to people who don't know about OWL 1 and don't need to
Bijan Parsia: +1 to making abstract applicable to people who don't know about OWL 1 and don't need to ←
19:29:57 <alanr> PROPOSAL: Address IH2 by chairs + others interested writing a new abstract that stands on it's own to introduce OWL 2. Keep info from the current abstract for another section.
PROPOSED: Address IH2 by chairs + others interested writing a new abstract that stands on it's own to introduce OWL 2. Keep info from the current abstract for another section. ←
19:30:10 <Jie> +1
+1 ←
19:30:12 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
19:30:16 <pfps> +1
19:30:17 <MarkusK_> +1
Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←
19:30:17 <msmith> +1
Mike Smith: +1 ←
19:30:19 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
19:30:19 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
19:30:19 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
19:30:21 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
19:30:22 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
19:30:24 <Zhe> +1
19:30:29 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
19:30:33 <Bernardo> +1
19:30:36 <alanr> RESOLVED: Address IH2 by chairs + others interested writing a new abstract that stands on it's own to introduce OWL 2. Keep info from the current abstract for another section.
RESOLVED: Address IH2 by chairs + others interested writing a new abstract that stands on it's own to introduce OWL 2. Keep info from the current abstract for another section. ←
19:30:48 <Jie> Topic: adjourn
19:30:50 <Zakim> -uli
Zakim IRC Bot: -uli ←
19:30:53 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
19:30:54 <MarkusK_> bye
Markus Krötzsch: bye ←
19:30:54 <uli> bye
Uli Sattler: bye ←
19:30:55 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
19:30:56 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
19:30:57 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
19:30:57 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
19:30:58 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK_ ←
19:30:58 <Zakim> -Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan ←
19:31:00 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
19:31:01 <Zakim> -Bernardo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bernardo ←
19:31:03 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
19:31:05 <Zakim> -baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie ←
19:31:07 <schneid> missed RDF-Based the third time, sigh...
Michael Schneider: missed RDF-Based the third time, sigh... ←
19:31:15 <schneid> quit
Michael Schneider: quit ←
19:31:24 <Zakim> -schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid ←
19:31:29 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
19:31:30 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended ←
19:31:32 <Zakim> Attendees were baojie, Bernardo, schneid, MarkusK_, Peter_Patel-Schneider, bijan, bmotik, Ivan, uli, Alan, msmith, Sandro, Achille, Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were baojie, Bernardo, schneid, MarkusK_, Peter_Patel-Schneider, bijan, bmotik, Ivan, uli, Alan, msmith, Sandro, Achille, Zhe ←
This revision (#1) generated 2009-01-25 18:47:51 UTC by 'jbao', comments: 'First saved version'