14:22:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://dristachi.site/2011/08/03-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://dristachi.site/2011/08/03-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:22:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:22:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:22:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes ←
14:22:18 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:22:18 <trackbot> Date: 03 August 2011
14:53:55 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 31 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:54:02 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa ←
14:54:09 <gavinc> zakim, aaaa is me
Gavin Carothers: zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:54:09 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it ←
14:58:23 <SteveH> Zakim, what is the code?
Steve Harris: Zakim, what is the code? ←
14:58:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), SteveH ←
14:58:34 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
14:58:39 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
14:58:39 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
14:58:48 <Zakim> +David_Wood
Zakim IRC Bot: +David_Wood ←
14:59:57 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:59:57 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:59:59 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:00:19 <davidwood> Zakim, you appear to be a goldfish
David Wood: Zakim, you appear to be a goldfish ←
15:00:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you appear to be a goldfish', davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'you appear to be a goldfish', davidwood ←
15:00:42 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:00:53 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:00:53 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:00:54 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:00:55 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:01:08 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
15:01:13 <cygri> zakim, what's the code?
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, what's the code? ←
15:01:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri ←
15:01:23 <Zakim> +Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri ←
15:01:35 <AndyS1> zakim, ??P6 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P6 is me ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> +AndyS1; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS1; got it ←
15:01:45 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:01:45 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2 ←
15:01:48 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
15:01:55 <pchampin> zakim, ??P4 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P4 is me ←
15:01:55 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
15:02:03 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas ←
15:02:04 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is noisy? ←
15:02:11 <pchampin> zakim, mute me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, mute me ←
15:02:11 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pchampin should now be muted ←
15:02:13 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is me ←
15:02:13 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:02:15 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pchampin (45%), mhausenblas (10%)
Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pchampin (45%), mhausenblas (10%) ←
15:02:20 <Zakim> +Tony
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony ←
15:02:26 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aabb ←
15:02:32 <Scott_Bauer> zakim, tony is me
Scott Bauer: zakim, tony is me ←
15:02:32 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott_Bauer; got it ←
15:02:34 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aabb is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.650.265.aabb is me ←
15:02:34 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it ←
15:02:46 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:03:19 <ericP> gavinc, what are the contra-indications for publishing in HTML4.01 for this version?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: gavinc, what are the contra-indications for publishing in HTML4.01 for this version? ←
15:03:29 <ericP> uncool?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: uncool? ←
15:03:41 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
15:03:54 <mbrunati> zakim, ??P1 is me
Matteo Brunati: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
15:03:54 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mbrunati; got it ←
15:04:03 <AndyS1> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:04:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, SteveH, David_Wood, Ivan, MacTed (muted), AndyS1, Souri, pchampin (muted), cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, ericP, mbrunati
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavinc, SteveH, David_Wood, Ivan, MacTed (muted), AndyS1, Souri, pchampin (muted), cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, ericP, mbrunati ←
15:04:04 <gavinc> I have no objections to publishing an HTML 4.01 document that is ALSO valid according to validator.nu
Gavin Carothers: I have no objections to publishing an HTML 4.01 document that is ALSO valid according to validator.nu ←
15:04:32 <cygri> pchampin, if nathan isn't around today, do you want to scribe?
Richard Cyganiak: pchampin, if nathan isn't around today, do you want to scribe? ←
15:04:42 <pchampin> I can scribe
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I can scribe ←
15:04:42 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aacc ←
15:04:50 <AlexHall> zakim, aacc is me
Alex Hall: zakim, aacc is me ←
15:04:50 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it ←
15:04:59 <pchampin> scribe: pchampin
(Scribe set to Pierre-Antoine Champin)
15:05:14 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 20 July telecon:
David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 20 July telecon: ←
15:05:14 <davidwood> http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-07-20
David Wood: http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-07-20 ←
15:06:27 <pchampin> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 20 July telecon
RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 20 July telecon ←
15:06:31 <davidwood> Action item review:
David Wood: Action item review: ←
15:06:31 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - item
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - item ←
15:06:31 <davidwood> http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview
David Wood: http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview ←
15:06:31 <davidwood> http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open
David Wood: http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open ←
15:06:34 <pchampin> topic: open action items
15:08:23 <pchampin> david: all people having open actions are not here today
David Wood: all people having open actions are not here today ←
15:08:28 <AZ> I am but I'm not on the phone
Antoine Zimmermann: I am but I'm not on the phone ←
15:08:56 <AZ> hmm, I completely forgot my action
Antoine Zimmermann: hmm, I completely forgot my action ←
15:09:53 <davidwood> Gavin and Eric P were speaking
David Wood: Gavin and Eric P were speaking ←
15:10:01 <davidwood> They are the editors of the Turtle document
David Wood: They are the editors of the Turtle document ←
15:10:08 <pchampin> topic: Turtle moving to First Public Draft
15:11:09 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:11:27 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
15:11:31 <pchampin> eric: problems with embedding Turtle in HTML
Eric Prud'hommeaux: problems with embedding Turtle in HTML ←
15:11:37 <NickH> zakim, ??P21 is me
Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, ??P21 is me ←
15:11:37 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it ←
15:11:49 <NickH> zakim, mute me
Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, mute me ←
15:11:49 <Zakim> NickH should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: NickH should now be muted ←
15:12:25 <pchampin> ... especially if you want the Turtle to be copy-paste-able from the source
... especially if you want the Turtle to be copy-paste-able from the source ←
15:12:43 <pchampin> ... (if the scribe got it right)
... (if the scribe got it right) ←
15:13:16 <pchampin> Ivan: could be solved in ReSpec
Ivan Herman: could be solved in ReSpec ←
15:13:27 <Zakim> + +34.92.38.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +34.92.38.aadd ←
15:14:01 <FabGandon> Zakim, 34.92.38.aadd is FabGandon
Fabien Gandon: Zakim, 34.92.38.aadd is FabGandon ←
15:14:01 <Zakim> sorry, FabGandon, I do not recognize a party named '34.92.38.aadd'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, FabGandon, I do not recognize a party named '34.92.38.aadd' ←
15:14:17 <FabGandon> Zakim, aadd is FabGandon
Fabien Gandon: Zakim, aadd is FabGandon ←
15:14:17 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it ←
15:14:31 <Zakim> + +33.9.54.07.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.9.54.07.aaee ←
15:14:44 <pchampin> gavin: using CDATA does not work with non-XML-aware browsers
Gavin Carothers: using CDATA does not work with non-XML-aware browsers ←
15:14:58 <AZ> zakim, +33.9.54.07.aaee is me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, +33.9.54.07.aaee is me ←
15:14:58 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:15:07 <AZ> zakim, mute me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me ←
15:15:07 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted ←
15:15:15 <pchampin> david: couldn't some javascript help?
David Wood: couldn't some javascript help? ←
15:15:46 <pchampin> gavin: I don't think we can publish a document with its content dynamically modified by javascript
Gavin Carothers: I don't think we can publish a document with its content dynamically modified by javascript ←
15:16:28 <pchampin> ivan: I don't really care about being able to copy-paste turtle form the source; I can do that from the browser
Ivan Herman: I don't really care about being able to copy-paste turtle form the source; I can do that from the browser ←
15:16:45 <ericP> swallow our pride? what are we then?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: swallow our pride? what are we then? ←
15:16:55 <pchampin> xxx: would make it easier to work with XSL-T as well, though
Eric Prud'hommeaux: would make it easier to work with XSL-T as well, though ←
15:17:04 <ericP> +1 to just publishing <-encoded turtle
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to just publishing <-encoded turtle ←
15:18:05 <ericP> q+ to ask about RDFa
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask about RDFa ←
15:18:12 <pchampin> ivan: we can have all Turtle examples as seperate files, use them to generate the spec (with < encoding), and point in the spec to an archive with all the example as plain Turtle
Ivan Herman: we can have all Turtle examples as seperate files, use them to generate the spec (with < encoding), and point in the spec to an archive with all the example as plain Turtle ←
15:18:42 <pchampin> pchampin: +1 to Ivan's proposal
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 to Ivan's proposal ←
15:19:18 <pchampin> s/xxx/eric/
15:20:24 <pchampin> eric: we should apply the solution that allows us to publish sooner
Eric Prud'hommeaux: we should apply the solution that allows us to publish sooner ←
15:20:51 <ivan> gavin, the rdfa source: http://dristachi.site/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/Overview-src.html
Ivan Herman: gavin, the rdfa source: http://dristachi.site/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/Overview-src.html ←
15:21:28 <ivan> q-
Ivan Herman: q- ←
15:21:31 <ericP> q-
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q- ←
15:21:52 <pchampin> topic: FTF2 Admin
15:21:54 <davidwood> FTF2 Admin
David Wood: FTF2 Admin ←
15:21:54 <davidwood> http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2
David Wood: http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2 ←
15:23:10 <pchampin> david: people need to edit the wikipage above to indicate whether they will attend physically, remotely, or not
David Wood: people need to edit the wikipage above to indicate whether they will attend physically, remotely, or not ←
15:25:45 <pchampin> david: it was proposed to have videoconference link with DERI for people from europe who could not come to MIT
David Wood: it was proposed to have videoconference link with DERI for people from europe who could not come to MIT ←
15:26:03 <pchampin> richard: it was proposed, but I'm not sure if that will be possible
Richard Cyganiak: it was proposed, but I'm not sure if that will be possible ←
15:26:04 <AndyS1> Hello
Andy Seaborne: Hello ←
15:26:33 <pchampin> ... should be confirmed by someone who knows more what equipment will be available on both sides
... should be confirmed by someone who knows more what equipment will be available on both sides ←
15:26:37 <FabGandon> q+ to mention discussions for having facilities for F2F meetings at WWW 2012 + 3rd F2F of RDF 1.1
Fabien Gandon: q+ to mention discussions for having facilities for F2F meetings at WWW 2012 + 3rd F2F of RDF 1.1 ←
15:27:43 <davidwood> ack FabGandon
David Wood: ack FabGandon ←
15:27:43 <Zakim> FabGandon, you wanted to mention discussions for having facilities for F2F meetings at WWW 2012 + 3rd F2F of RDF 1.1
Zakim IRC Bot: FabGandon, you wanted to mention discussions for having facilities for F2F meetings at WWW 2012 + 3rd F2F of RDF 1.1 ←
15:27:47 <AndyS1> Oxford end was in computer lab. Worked well.
Andy Seaborne: Oxford end was in computer lab. Worked well. ←
15:28:32 <pchampin> fabien: wanted to mentionned on-going discussion with WWW 2012 organizers to have FTF3 there
Fabien Gandon: wanted to mentionned on-going discussion with WWW 2012 organizers to have FTF3 there ←
15:28:42 <ericP> -> http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference MIT teleconferencing equipment
Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference MIT teleconferencing equipment ←
15:29:01 <AndyS1> Poll was: http://dristachi.site/2002/09/wbs/46168/F2F2-EAST/
Andy Seaborne: Poll was: http://dristachi.site/2002/09/wbs/46168/F2F2-EAST/ ←
15:29:13 <gavinc> Yes
Gavin Carothers: Yes ←
15:29:17 <gavinc> Link works
Gavin Carothers: Link works ←
15:29:51 <pchampin> richard: I will check if the equipment pointed to by eric will work with our equipments at DERI
Richard Cyganiak: I will check if the equipment pointed to by eric will work with our equipments at DERI ←
15:31:03 <pchampin> ivan: I think there was also an offer to host the meeting at the Lucent labs in Dublin, have to check with Chris
Ivan Herman: I think there was also an offer to host the meeting at the Lucent labs in Dublin, have to check with Chris ←
15:31:09 <cygri> ACTION: richard to check if DERI video conferencing equipment is compatible with http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference for F2F2
ACTION: richard to check if DERI video conferencing equipment is compatible with http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference for F2F2 ←
15:31:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Check if DERI video conferencing equipment is compatible with http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference for F2F2 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-08-10].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-72 - Check if DERI video conferencing equipment is compatible with http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference for F2F2 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-08-10]. ←
15:31:26 <pchampin> topic: RDF Concepts Editors Draft
15:32:24 <pchampin> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html ←
15:32:28 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:32:29 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:32:34 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:32:41 <pchampin> richard: I can turn it from an editor's draft to a working draft
Richard Cyganiak: I can turn it from an editor's draft to a working draft ←
15:33:13 <pchampin> ivan: administrative question: is it possible to publish it in the same move as the Turtle document?
Ivan Herman: administrative question: is it possible to publish it in the same move as the Turtle document? ←
15:33:23 <pchampin> david: I don't care
David Wood: I don't care ←
15:33:51 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
15:33:58 <pchampin> ... I would even prefer two distinct announcements
... I would even prefer two distinct announcements ←
15:34:36 <pchampin> gavin: if published separately, they can not formaly refer to each other
Gavin Carothers: if published separately, they can not formaly refer to each other ←
15:34:53 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:35:02 <Zakim> +AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ ←
15:35:03 <pchampin> david: not a problem at this stage, but may be we should record an issue to remember to update the links
David Wood: not a problem at this stage, but may be we should record an issue to remember to update the links ←
15:35:13 <AZ> zakim, mute me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me ←
15:35:13 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted ←
15:36:23 <pchampin> richard: I need to know what will be the short name, the date of the document
Richard Cyganiak: I need to know what will be the short name, the date of the document ←
15:36:39 <pchampin> gavin: the webmaster will tell you when you publish the document
Gavin Carothers: the webmaster will tell you when you publish the document ←
15:37:00 <pchampin> ... I can help you in the process, just went through it
... I can help you in the process, just went through it ←
15:37:23 <pchampin> ivan: do we use the same short names as the original RDF or different ones?
Ivan Herman: do we use the same short names as the original RDF or different ones? ←
15:38:02 <pchampin> richard: I think we discussed this a time ago: new short name during the development (rdf11-*) and in the end replace the original short names
Richard Cyganiak: I think we discussed this a time ago: new short name during the development (rdf11-*) and in the end replace the original short names ←
15:39:30 <pchampin> ivan: the short name needs to be approved; we need to provide a short description of the document to Thomas, but he is in vacations now
Ivan Herman: the short name needs to be approved; we need to provide a short description of the document to Thomas, but he is in vacations now ←
15:39:56 <pchampin> ... once this is done and the short name is approved, richard has to contact the webmaster
... once this is done and the short name is approved, richard has to contact the webmaster ←
15:41:41 <pchampin> david: if we agree here, I'll call a call for consensus on the list so that everyone can express
David Wood: if we agree here, I'll call a call for consensus on the list so that everyone can express ←
15:41:57 <pchampin> ivan: we should record it as a resolution
Ivan Herman: we should record it as a resolution ←
15:42:08 <mischat> i wonder who will be updating the RDF related validators on w3.org ...
Mischa Tuffield: i wonder who will be updating the RDF related validators on w3.org ... ←
15:42:14 <pchampin> PROPOSED: move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft
PROPOSED: move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft ←
15:42:21 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:42:22 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:42:23 <AndyS1> +1 (Apache)
Andy Seaborne: +1 (Apache) ←
15:42:24 <cygri> +1
Richard Cyganiak: +1 ←
15:42:25 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
15:42:27 <zwu2> +1
15:42:28 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
15:42:29 <pchampin> pchampin: +1
15:42:30 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:42:36 <mischat> +!
Mischa Tuffield: +! ←
15:42:37 <mischat> +1
Mischa Tuffield: +1 ←
15:42:43 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
15:42:49 <AlexHall> +1
15:42:51 <SteveH> +1
Steve Harris: +1 ←
15:43:19 <ivan> RESOLVED: move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft
RESOLVED: move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft ←
15:43:49 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:43:58 <gavinc> Turtle version: Turtle is already a reasonably settled serialization of RDF. Many implementations of Turtle already exist, we are hoping for feedback from those existing implementers and other people deciding that now would be a good time to support Turtle. There are still a few rough edges that need polishing, and better alignment with the SPARQL triple patterns. The working group does not expect to make any large changes to the existing syntax.
Gavin Carothers: Turtle version: Turtle is already a reasonably settled serialization of RDF. Many implementations of Turtle already exist, we are hoping for feedback from those existing implementers and other people deciding that now would be a good time to support Turtle. There are still a few rough edges that need polishing, and better alignment with the SPARQL triple patterns. The working group does not expect to make any large changes to the existing syntax. ←
15:45:39 <davidwood> http://dristachi.site/TR/2002/WD-rdf-concepts-20020829/
David Wood: http://dristachi.site/TR/2002/WD-rdf-concepts-20020829/ ←
15:46:00 <AndyS1> http://dristachi.site/2001/06/manual/#Status
Andy Seaborne: http://dristachi.site/2001/06/manual/#Status ←
15:46:39 <gavinc> When I wrote the Turtle one I was unable to find any good examples :\
Gavin Carothers: When I wrote the Turtle one I was unable to find any good examples :\ ←
15:46:47 <pchampin> ivan: Richard should write a paragraph similar to the one in the Turtle document (quoted by Gavin above) and send it to the rest of the group
Ivan Herman: Richard should write a paragraph similar to the one in the Turtle document (quoted by Gavin above) and send it to the rest of the group ←
15:48:15 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
15:48:24 <davidwood> TimBL expressed the goal of the custom paragraph this way, "Don't be afraid of being honest about the relevant techno-political situation."
David Wood: TimBL expressed the goal of the custom paragraph this way, "Don't be afraid of being honest about the relevant techno-political situation." ←
15:48:25 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: David_Wood (25%), FabGandon (20%)
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: David_Wood (25%), FabGandon (20%) ←
15:48:25 <pchampin> david: the link pasted by Andy is correct, but does not provide much guidance
David Wood: the link pasted by Andy is correct, but does not provide much guidance ←
15:48:43 <ivan> zakim, mute FabGandon
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute FabGandon ←
15:48:43 <Zakim> FabGandon should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: FabGandon should now be muted ←
15:48:56 <AndyS1> Good news, this does not happen every publication cycle.
Andy Seaborne: Good news, this does not happen every publication cycle. ←
15:48:57 <davidwood> Introduction of RDF/XML spec doesn't explain relationship to RDF Concepts
David Wood: Introduction of RDF/XML spec doesn't explain relationship to RDF Concepts ←
15:48:57 <davidwood> http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/72
David Wood: http://dristachi.site/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/72 ←
15:49:46 <mischat> s/n3/ntriples/
Mischa Tuffield: s/n3/ntriples/ ←
15:51:21 <pchampin> gavin: I think the Turtle document does a slightly better job
Gavin Carothers: I think the Turtle document does a slightly better job ←
15:51:22 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-parsing-triples
Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-parsing-triples ←
15:51:32 <pchampin> ... is that what you mean?
... is that what you mean? ←
15:54:01 <davidwood> http://dristachi.site/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Syntax-intro
David Wood: http://dristachi.site/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Syntax-intro ←
15:54:11 <mischat> cygri: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-intro
Richard Cyganiak: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-intro [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ] ←
15:55:42 <FabGandon> zakim, unmute FabGandon
Fabien Gandon: zakim, unmute FabGandon ←
15:55:42 <Zakim> FabGandon should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: FabGandon should no longer be muted ←
15:55:59 <pchampin> ivan: I'm scared of touching the RDF/XML document
Ivan Herman: I'm scared of touching the RDF/XML document ←
15:56:11 <pchampin> david: we have to align it with the terminology, though
David Wood: we have to align it with the terminology, though ←
15:56:18 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
15:56:30 <pchampin> ... and to update the links
... and to update the links ←
15:56:34 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:56:58 <pchampin> ivan: unfortunatelly
Ivan Herman: unfortunatelly ←
15:57:02 <davidwood> ack cygri
David Wood: ack cygri ←
15:57:51 <pchampin> richard: some things really have to be done, including correcting some errors that have been spotted
Richard Cyganiak: some things really have to be done, including correcting some errors that have been spotted ←
15:58:05 <pchampin> ... also, making it clear that this is just *one* syntax for an RDF graph
... also, making it clear that this is just *one* syntax for an RDF graph ←
15:58:38 <pchampin> ... though I can understand the arguments against touching the document at all
... though I can understand the arguments against touching the document at all ←
15:58:52 <cygri> ivan++
Richard Cyganiak: ivan++ ←
15:59:03 <pchampin> ivan: we can agree that any change we do is purely editorial
Ivan Herman: we can agree that any change we do is purely editorial ←
15:59:26 <mischat> is s/rdf graph/$somethingMoreModern/ considered an editorial change
Mischa Tuffield: is s/rdf graph/$somethingMoreModern/ considered an editorial change ←
15:59:27 <mischat> ?
Mischa Tuffield: ? ←
15:59:49 <pchampin> david: should this be a resolution?
David Wood: should this be a resolution? ←
16:00:02 <pchampin> ivan: yes, it's probably good to have it
Ivan Herman: yes, it's probably good to have it ←
16:00:37 <ivan> PROPOSED: the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc)
PROPOSED: the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc) ←
16:00:56 <cygri> +1
Richard Cyganiak: +1 ←
16:00:57 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
16:00:58 <gavinc> +ugh
Gavin Carothers: +ugh ←
16:00:59 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
16:01:00 <FabGandon> +1
Fabien Gandon: +1 ←
16:01:01 <zwu2> +1
16:01:01 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
16:01:04 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
16:01:05 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
16:01:08 <SteveH> +1
Steve Harris: +1 ←
16:01:09 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
16:01:10 <AndyS1> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
16:01:14 <AlexHall> +1
16:01:29 <ivan> RESOLVED: the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc)
RESOLVED: the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc) ←
16:01:43 <mischat> still thinks that s/rdf graph/XXXX/ would be nice ...
Mischa Tuffield: still thinks that s/rdf graph/XXXX/ would be nice ... ←
16:02:08 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
16:02:30 <pchampin> david: I don't want to open the can of worm "Graph terminology" given the remaining time
David Wood: I don't want to open the can of worm "Graph terminology" given the remaining time ←
16:02:58 <pchampin> ivan: will the terminology appear in the RDF Concepts document?
Ivan Herman: will the terminology appear in the RDF Concepts document? ←
16:03:01 <pchampin> david: yes
David Wood: yes ←
16:03:05 <cygri> ivan, long answer: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-multigraph
Richard Cyganiak: ivan, long answer: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-multigraph ←
16:04:09 <pchampin> ivan: from the last emails, it seems we are reaching consensus
Ivan Herman: from the last emails, it seems we are reaching consensus ←
16:04:58 <pchampin> david: I agree, but I don't want to settle this issue in august, without some of the people that will want to be very careful about it
David Wood: I agree, but I don't want to settle this issue in august, without some of the people that will want to be very careful about it ←
16:05:23 <pchampin> topic: ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals
16:05:00 <davidwood> Proposal for ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals
David Wood: Proposal for ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals ←
16:05:05 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jul/0048.html
David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jul/0048.html ←
16:06:03 <pchampin> richard: I can summarize the proposal:
Richard Cyganiak: I can summarize the proposal: ←
16:06:15 <pchampin> ... don't change the way literals with language tag work
... don't change the way literals with language tag work ←
16:07:25 <pchampin> ... propose to call them 'language-tagged strings' because the old term "plain literals with language tag" does not makes sense anymore
... propose to call them 'language-tagged strings' because the old term "plain literals with language tag" does not makes sense anymore ←
16:07:43 <pchampin> ... introduce a class rdf:LangString to allow it as rdfs:range of properties
... introduce a class rdf:LangString to allow it as rdfs:range of properties ←
16:08:43 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:08:56 <pchampin> andy: I would prefer literals with language tag to have a datatype
Andy Seaborne: I would prefer literals with language tag to have a datatype ←
16:10:56 <pchampin> ... with only one datatype covering all language tags
... with only one datatype covering all language tags ←
16:11:04 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
16:11:05 <ivan> q-
Ivan Herman: q- ←
16:11:34 <pchampin> ivan: in a sense, I'm in favor with what Andy says;
Ivan Herman: in a sense, I'm in favor with what Andy says; ←
16:11:41 <cygri> q+ to say that there are no datatype properties in rdf
Richard Cyganiak: q+ to say that there are no datatype properties in rdf ←
16:12:16 <pchampin> ... using rdf:LangString as the range of a datatype-property, if rdf:LangString is not a datatype, is strange from an user's point of view
... using rdf:LangString as the range of a datatype-property, if rdf:LangString is not a datatype, is strange from an user's point of view ←
16:12:21 <davidwood> ack cygri
David Wood: ack cygri ←
16:12:22 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to say that there are no datatype properties in rdf
Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to say that there are no datatype properties in rdf ←
16:13:06 <davidwood> …but the OWL and RIF WGs will be concerned with higher-level schemas
David Wood: …but the OWL and RIF WGs will be concerned with higher-level schemas ←
16:13:09 <pchampin> richard: I think that is a non issue; the distinction between object-properties and datatype-properties in not part of RDF
Richard Cyganiak: I think that is a non issue; the distinction between object-properties and datatype-properties in not part of RDF ←
16:13:16 <pchampin> ivan: but we can't ignore it
Ivan Herman: but we can't ignore it ←
16:13:55 <pchampin> richard: but the issue is not new, then: rdf:Literal is already a class
Richard Cyganiak: but the issue is not new, then: rdf:Literal is already a class ←
16:14:30 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
16:14:52 <davidwood> ack cygri
David Wood: ack cygri ←
16:15:32 <AndyS1> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
16:15:54 <AndyS1> q+ to say that is heading to langtag = implicit datatype.
Andy Seaborne: q+ to say that is heading to langtag = implicit datatype. ←
16:16:33 <pchampin> richard: I have two concerns:
Richard Cyganiak: I have two concerns: ←
16:16:51 <pchampin> ... 1/ the complexity of a conceptual framework with (lexical form, datatype, language tag)
... 1/ the complexity of a conceptual framework with (lexical form, datatype, language tag) ←
16:17:02 <pchampin> ... where language tag can only be present if datatype has certain values
... where language tag can only be present if datatype has certain values ←
16:17:09 <pchampin> ... 2/ abusing the notion of datatype
... 2/ abusing the notion of datatype ←
16:17:11 <AndyS1> There are numbers you can't write down already.
Andy Seaborne: There are numbers you can't write down already. ←
16:17:32 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
16:17:32 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to say that is heading to langtag = implicit datatype.
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to say that is heading to langtag = implicit datatype. ←
16:18:15 <Zakim> -NickH
Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH ←
16:18:18 <pchampin> pchampin: @AndyS: are those numbers (that you can't write down) part of any xsd datatype??
Pierre-Antoine Champin: @AndyS: are those numbers (that you can't write down) part of any xsd datatype?? ←
16:19:11 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
16:19:34 <pchampin> david: should we revisit the datatype discussion based on the new perspective you brought (single datatype, instead of one datatype per language tag)?
David Wood: should we revisit the datatype discussion based on the new perspective you brought (single datatype, instead of one datatype per language tag)? ←
16:19:39 <AndyS1> They are in the value space which is the number line :-)
Andy Seaborne: They are in the value space which is the number line :-) ←
16:20:16 <pchampin> david: we have to adjourn now; next telecon in two weeks
David Wood: we have to adjourn now; next telecon in two weeks ←
16:20:18 <SteveH> bye
Steve Harris: bye ←
16:20:19 <zwu2> bye
16:20:20 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
16:20:22 <mbrunati> bye
Matteo Brunati: bye ←
16:20:22 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
16:20:26 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:20:33 <Zakim> -mbrunati
Zakim IRC Bot: -mbrunati ←
16:20:47 <pchampin> RRSagent, make minutes
RRSagent, make minutes ←
16:20:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://dristachi.site/2011/08/03-rdf-wg-minutes.html pchampin
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://dristachi.site/2011/08/03-rdf-wg-minutes.html pchampin ←
16:20:47 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:20:49 <Zakim> -David_Wood
Zakim IRC Bot: -David_Wood ←
16:20:50 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:20:51 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
16:20:52 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:21:04 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer
Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott_Bauer ←
16:21:09 <Zakim> -AndyS1
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS1 ←
16:21:10 <Zakim> -FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon ←
16:21:16 <cygri> gavinc, i'll try to do �the FPWD thing in ReSpec. might come to you with questions.
Richard Cyganiak: gavinc, i'll try to do �the FPWD thing in ReSpec. might come to you with questions. ←
16:21:30 <gavinc> cygri sounds good
Gavin Carothers: cygri sounds good ←
16:21:40 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
16:22:29 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
16:22:30 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended ←
16:22:32 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.707.861.aaaa, gavinc, SteveH, David_Wood, Ivan, MacTed, Souri, AndyS1, pchampin, cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, ericP, mbrunati, +1.443.212.aacc, AlexHall, NickH,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.707.861.aaaa, gavinc, SteveH, David_Wood, Ivan, MacTed, Souri, AndyS1, pchampin, cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, ericP, mbrunati, +1.443.212.aacc, AlexHall, NickH, ←
16:22:35 <Zakim> ... +34.92.38.aadd, FabGandon, AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +34.92.38.aadd, FabGandon, AZ ←
16:22:58 <pchampin> can anyone help me with the publishing of the minutes on the wiki?
can anyone help me with the publishing of the minutes on the wiki? ←
16:23:18 <gavinc> Okay, I think I have javascript that turns all the examples <scripts> into <divs>
Gavin Carothers: Okay, I think I have javascript that turns all the examples <scripts> into <divs> ←
16:23:20 <gavinc> what fun
Gavin Carothers: what fun ←
16:23:57 <pchampin> RRSagant, make records public
RRSagant, make records public ←
16:24:13 <pchampin> RRSagent, make records public
RRSagent, make records public ←
Formatted by CommonScribe