13:48:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://dristachi.site/2010/05/04-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://dristachi.site/2010/05/04-sparql-irc ←
13:48:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:48:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
13:48:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes ←
13:48:50 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
13:48:50 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:48:50 <trackbot> Date: 04 May 2010
13:48:51 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes ←
13:48:52 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
13:48:57 <LeeF> Scribenick: ivan
(Scribe set to Ivan Herman)
13:49:09 <LeeF> Regrets: AxelPolleres, SteveH, dcharboneau2
13:49:30 <LeeF> Agenda: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-05-04
13:58:05 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 9 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
13:58:12 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
13:58:56 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
13:59:20 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum ←
13:59:49 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
14:00:00 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:00:02 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:00:08 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:00:14 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
14:00:20 <AndyS> zakim, ??P14 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P14 is me ←
14:00:20 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:02:05 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:02:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgearon, kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, MattPerry, Ivan, AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgearon, kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, MattPerry, Ivan, AndyS ←
14:03:19 <ivan> scribenick:ivan
14:03:28 <Zakim> +??P27
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27 ←
14:03:34 <LeeF> minutes from last week: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-27
Lee Feigenbaum: minutes from last week: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-27 ←
14:03:59 <LeeF> zakim, ??P27 is Orri
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, ??P27 is Orri ←
14:03:59 <Zakim> +Orri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Orri; got it ←
14:05:28 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby ←
14:06:27 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Steve, dcharboneau, Souri, Sandro
14:06:48 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-27
PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-27 ←
14:06:51 <ivan> LeeF: anybody concerns with minutes of last week?
Lee Feigenbaum: anybody concerns with minutes of last week? ←
14:06:55 <ivan> ... 1
... 1 ←
14:06:57 <ivan> .... 2
.... 2 ←
14:07:00 <ivan> .... 3
.... 3 ←
14:07:04 <ivan> .... 4
.... 4 ←
14:07:21 <ivan> ... discussions about variables, queries, next round of documents...
... discussions about variables, queries, next round of documents... ←
14:07:31 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-27
RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-27 ←
14:07:41 <LeeF> Next meeting: 2010-05-11 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Sandro)
Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting: 2010-05-11 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Sandro) ←
14:07:45 <Zakim> +chimezie
Zakim IRC Bot: +chimezie ←
14:07:56 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←
14:07:56 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should now be muted ←
14:08:24 <ivan> Lee: other admin issues
Lee Feigenbaum: other admin issues ←
14:08:32 <ivan> ... couple of comments, they are taken care of
... couple of comments, they are taken care of ←
14:08:35 <ivan> ... same for actions
... same for actions ←
14:08:43 <ivan> ... any questions on those?
... any questions on those? ←
14:08:51 <ivan> (no reply from anybody...)
(no reply from anybody...) ←
14:09:13 <ivan> Other wgs: RDB2RDF WG finalizing UCR document
Other wgs: RDB2RDF WG finalizing UCR document ←
14:09:24 <ivan> eGov- anybody has questions?
eGov- anybody has questions? ←
14:09:26 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:09:30 <LeeF> ack ivan
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivan ←
14:10:34 <ivan> topic: update on sparql update (sic!)
14:10:53 <ivan> Lee: seeking immediate feedback
Lee Feigenbaum: seeking immediate feedback ←
14:11:01 <ivan> ... or get people to look online
... or get people to look at offline ←
14:11:16 <ivan> s/online/at offline/
14:12:30 <LeeF> topic: Recent additions/updates to SPARQL Update
14:12:55 <ivan> LeeF: issue is the update model
Lee Feigenbaum: issue is the update model ←
14:13:01 <ivan> ... what the underlying formalism is
... what the underlying formalism is ←
14:14:07 <kasei> 61
Gregory Williams: 61 ←
14:14:22 <kasei> i think 61#
Gregory Williams: i think 61# ←
14:14:49 <kasei> 60# i think
Gregory Williams: 60# i think ←
14:15:00 <kasei> 1 and 0, on and off if I remember right.
Gregory Williams: 1 and 0, on and off if I remember right. ←
14:15:47 <ivan> ... are those the significant issues to the spec?
... are those the significant issues to the spec? ←
14:16:30 <LeeF> update model is at: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#t32
Lee Feigenbaum: update model is at: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#t32 ←
14:16:37 <ivan> pgearon: the other part was the conversation we had on how we should datasets in insert and delete statements
Paula Gearon: the other part was the conversation we had on how we should datasets in insert and delete statements ←
14:16:53 <ivan> ... the keywords were not really appropriate for this
... the keywords were not really appropriate for this ←
14:16:59 <ivan> ... we wanted to avoid ambiguity
... we wanted to avoid ambiguity ←
14:17:07 <LeeF> (keywords FROM and FROM NAMED are confusing with DELETE)
Lee Feigenbaum: (keywords FROM and FROM NAMED are confusing with DELETE) ←
14:17:10 <ivan> ... at the same time nobody wanted to use new keywords
... at the same time nobody wanted to use new keywords ←
14:17:36 <ivan> ... USING and USING NAMES came up as a semi-consensus suggestion, I put it in the document
... USING and USING NAMES came up as a semi-consensus suggestion, I put it in the document ←
14:18:07 <ivan> LeeF: and the update model, how final do you think it is, do you expect to go deeper?
Lee Feigenbaum: and the update model, how final do you think it is, do you expect to go deeper? ←
14:18:29 <ivan> pgearon: if we go further we might end up enforcing things on implementations and turn them invalid
Paula Gearon: if we go further we might end up enforcing things on implementations and turn them invalid ←
14:18:44 <ivan> ... i do not see that coming any time soon, but it is a danger
... i do not see that coming any time soon, but it is a danger ←
14:18:55 <ivan> ... maybe a little more than what we have now is fine, but not much
... maybe a little more than what we have now is fine, but not much ←
14:19:12 <ivan> ... so long as it is internally consistent the level of details we have is on the right track
... so long as it is internally consistent the level of details we have is on the right track ←
14:19:23 <ivan> ... i mostly copied the points that were on the wiki
... i mostly copied the points that were on the wiki ←
14:19:39 <AndyS> If the impls have different outcomes on the same spec, surely the spec is not accurate enough.
Andy Seaborne: If the impls have different outcomes on the same spec, surely the spec is not accurate enough. ←
14:19:42 <ivan> (discussions whether that page was done by lee, he does not believe that...)
(discussions whether that page was done by lee, he does not believe that...) ←
14:20:11 <ivan> LeeF: to be clear on what has been put in
Lee Feigenbaum: to be clear on what has been put in ←
14:20:28 <Zakim> -Orri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Orri ←
14:20:29 <ivan> ... using and using names are synonymous with from and from names, but with different keywords?
... using and using names are synonymous with from and from names, but with different keywords? ←
14:20:32 <ivan> pgearon: yes
Paula Gearon: yes ←
14:20:55 <LeeF> """ If a USING clause appears, then this will override any effect that WITH may have on the WHERE clause, and only the WHERE clause."""
Lee Feigenbaum: """ If a USING clause appears, then this will override any effect that WITH may have on the WHERE clause, and only the WHERE clause.""" ←
14:21:59 <ivan> LeeF: i guess of this agenda topic was to point out this issue
Lee Feigenbaum: i guess of this agenda topic was to point out this issue ←
14:22:02 <ivan> ... and changes
... and changes ←
14:22:13 <ivan> ... we can close the corresponding issue
... we can close the corresponding issue ←
14:22:24 <ivan> ... we may have people review the document to see if this is the final design
... we may have people review the document to see if this is the final design ←
14:22:27 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-206
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-206 ←
14:22:27 <trackbot> ACTION-206 Coordinate with Paul, Steve, and Andy to form a coherent proposal re: datasets, FROM, FROM NAMED, WITH, default-graph-uri, and named-graph-uri closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-206 Coordinate with Paul, Steve, and Andy to form a coherent proposal re: datasets, FROM, FROM NAMED, WITH, default-graph-uri, and named-graph-uri closed ←
14:22:34 <AndyS> Why doesn't USING apply to DELETE template WHERE pattern and similarly INSERT on their own?
Andy Seaborne: Why doesn't USING apply to DELETE template WHERE pattern and similarly INSERT on their own? ←
14:22:43 <ivan> LeeF: anybody any questions?
Lee Feigenbaum: anybody any questions? ←
14:22:57 <ivan> ... otherwise people should take a look at them and comment
... otherwise people should take a look at them and comment ←
14:23:37 <LeeF> pgearon: in answer to Andy, it should apply there as well, oversight
Paula Gearon: in answer to Andy, it should apply there as well, oversight [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:23:38 <ivan> pgearon: because I was not thorough enough:-( and I will have to put in the right words...
Paula Gearon: because I was not thorough enough:-( and I will have to put in the right words... ←
14:24:32 <ivan> AndyS: i was more worried when you were talk about the update model to avoid implementations to change... (scribe lost)
Andy Seaborne: i was more worried when you were talk about the update model to avoid implementations to change... (scribe lost) ←
14:25:00 <ivan> pgearon: I am not really sure on how much more details are required
Paula Gearon: I am not really sure on how much more details are required ←
14:25:16 <ivan> ... eg, in general, do you have any formalism on how update work
... eg, in general, do you have any formalism on how update work ←
14:25:29 <ivan> AndyS: no, because I will have to change my implementation on what the spec says:-)
Andy Seaborne: no, because I will have to change my implementation on what the spec says:-) ←
14:25:50 <ivan> pgearon: what we have now are more general guidelines rather than being formal
Paula Gearon: what we have now are more general guidelines rather than being formal ←
14:26:11 <ivan> LeeF: my gut feeling is that we will need something more detailed, but I am not sure how much
Lee Feigenbaum: my gut feeling is that we will need something more detailed, but I am not sure how much ←
14:26:37 <ivan> ... when we begin to collect test cases we will know more by following the spec in more details
... when we begin to collect test cases we will know more by following the spec in more details ←
14:26:43 <ivan> ... we will know then if we have a good enough model
... we will know then if we have a good enough model ←
14:27:02 <ivan> ... we will have to rely on the query algebra, but we will not know until we are at the test cases
... we will have to rely on the query algebra, but we will not know until we are at the test cases ←
14:27:28 <ivan> pgearon: i have a limited experience for this type of formalism, I would need help and I am not the person stipulating what is required
Paula Gearon: i have a limited experience for this type of formalism, I would need help and I am not the person stipulating what is required ←
14:27:52 <ivan> LeeF: we will have to figure what we need and who is the right person to help with it
Lee Feigenbaum: we will have to figure what we need and who is the right person to help with it ←
14:28:11 <ivan> LeeF: is there anything else of things that are missing
Lee Feigenbaum: is there anything else of things that are missing ←
14:28:30 <ivan> pgearon: return cases for operations, most of them are success or failure, but, eg, you can have a partial load
Paula Gearon: return cases for operations, most of them are success or failure, but, eg, you can have a partial load ←
14:28:34 <ivan> LeeF: when?
Lee Feigenbaum: when? ←
14:28:42 <ivan> pgearon: should be done by tomorrow night
Paula Gearon: should be done by tomorrow night ←
14:28:50 <ivan> LeeF: did we pick reviewers last week?
Lee Feigenbaum: did we pick reviewers last week? ←
14:28:56 <kasei> don't think so
Gregory Williams: don't think so ←
14:28:58 <ivan> (stunned silence)
(stunned silence) ←
14:29:09 <ivan> (or everybody is ducking)
(or everybody is ducking) ←
14:29:28 <ivan> LeeF: we will need at least one reviewer for all documents
Lee Feigenbaum: we will need at least one reviewer for all documents ←
14:29:39 <ivan> ... this is to catch issues
... this is to catch issues ←
14:29:50 <ivan> ... and they are in a reasonable stage for publication
... and they are in a reasonable stage for publication ←
14:30:00 <ivan> LeeF: anybody volunteers to review sparql update
Lee Feigenbaum: anybody volunteers to review sparql update ←
14:30:12 <ivan> LeeF: I will volounteer
Lee Feigenbaum: I will volounteer ←
14:30:17 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to review SPARQL Update once pgearon gives the go ahead
ACTION: LeeF to review SPARQL Update once pgearon gives the go ahead ←
14:30:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-229 - Review SPARQL Update once pgearon gives the go ahead [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-05-11].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-229 - Review SPARQL Update once pgearon gives the go ahead [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-05-11]. ←
14:30:48 <ivan> LeeF: anybody else reviewing update?
Lee Feigenbaum: anybody else reviewing update? ←
14:31:36 <ivan> AndyS: for the grammar for publication; there is one grammar that is shared for update and query
Andy Seaborne: for the grammar for publication; there is one grammar that is shared for update and query ←
14:31:43 <AndyS> http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/sparql-grammar-11.html
Andy Seaborne: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/sparql-grammar-11.html ←
14:31:48 <ivan> LeeF: have we not published the combined grammar yet?
Lee Feigenbaum: have we not published the combined grammar yet? ←
14:31:55 <ivan> AndyS: the update stuff is not done yet
Andy Seaborne: the update stuff is not done yet ←
14:32:20 <ivan> LeeF: do we need to wrap it into a document structure with a proper URI in TR space?
Lee Feigenbaum: do we need to wrap it into a document structure with a proper URI in TR space? ←
14:32:34 <ivan> ... what is the intention for publishing it
... what is the intention for publishing it ←
14:32:50 <ivan> AndyS: the easy way is to put into, say, the query document and make it clear that it is also for update
Andy Seaborne: the easy way is to put into, say, the query document and make it clear that it is also for update ←
14:33:00 <ivan> ... pgearon, would that work for you?
... pgearon, would that work for you? ←
14:33:19 <ivan> pgearon: yes
Paula Gearon: yes ←
14:33:40 <ivan> LeeF: are there outstanding question on the list to add this to the document?
Lee Feigenbaum: are there outstanding question on the list to add this to the document? ←
14:33:52 <ivan> AndyS: there are couple issues open yet
Andy Seaborne: there are couple issues open yet ←
14:33:59 <ivan> LeeF: in the update syntax thread
Lee Feigenbaum: in the update syntax thread ←
14:34:16 <ivan> ... let us resolve the syntax issues next week
... let us resolve the syntax issues next week ←
14:34:29 <ivan> topic: federated queries
14:34:40 <LeeF> zakim, dial ericP-mobile
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, dial ericP-mobile ←
14:34:40 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; the call is being made ←
14:34:41 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
14:35:33 <LeeF> zakim, drop ericp
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, drop ericp ←
14:35:33 <Zakim> EricP is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: EricP is being disconnected ←
14:35:35 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
14:35:58 <LeeF> http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service
Lee Feigenbaum: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service ←
14:36:23 <LeeF> http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service#bindings
Lee Feigenbaum: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service#bindings ←
14:36:28 <ivan> LeeF: the issues was the binding stuff
Lee Feigenbaum: the issues was the binding stuff ←
14:36:39 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby ←
14:36:59 <ivan> ... short summary is that binding specifies a result set that should be used to constraint the answers to a federated query piece
... short summary is that binding specifies a result set that should be used to constraint the answers to a federated query piece ←
14:37:24 <ivan> ... if you have two service nodes, it binds the ones coming from that clause and send that to another call
... if you have two service nodes, it binds the ones coming from that clause and send that to another call ←
14:37:34 <ivan> ... that is the general idea behind bindings
... that is the general idea behind bindings ←
14:37:41 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby ←
14:37:58 <ivan> ... andy, most of the bindings from arq, does it include bindings
... andy, most of the bindings from arq, does it include bindings ←
14:38:08 <ivan> AndyS: no, that comes from eric's system
Andy Seaborne: no, that comes from eric's system ←
14:38:16 <LeeF> http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service#update
Lee Feigenbaum: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service#update ←
14:38:38 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
14:38:47 <ivan> LeeF: the other thing is section 3.1 where you can do the same thing for an insert/delete statement as a way to have a compact syntax for ground triples
Lee Feigenbaum: the other thing is section 3.1 where you can do the same thing for an insert/delete statement as a way to have a compact syntax for ground triples ←
14:39:05 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
14:39:05 <AndyS> q-
Andy Seaborne: q- ←
14:39:06 <ivan> ... this was an area where we may not have concensus
... this was an area where we may not have concensus ←
14:39:11 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:39:28 <LeeF> ack ivan
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivan ←
14:39:31 <ivan> ivan: why is that different than having select in select?
Ivan Herman: why is that different than having select in select? ←
14:39:58 <kasei> i think BINDINGS is important, but hesitant about its use with UPDATE
Gregory Williams: i think BINDINGS is important, but hesitant about its use with UPDATE ←
14:40:13 <ivan> LeeF: I am not sure I understand
Lee Feigenbaum: I am not sure I understand ←
14:40:21 <ivan> ivan: then I may not understand
Ivan Herman: then I may not understand ←
14:40:42 <kasei> I think you could do this with subselects, but it would be nasty: { SELECT 1 AS ?id {} } UNION { SELECT 2 AS ?id {} }
Gregory Williams: I think you could do this with subselects, but it would be nasty: { SELECT 1 AS ?id {} } UNION { SELECT 2 AS ?id {} } ←
14:40:56 <ivan> LeeF: it specifies a result set to join with a query
Lee Feigenbaum: it specifies a result set to join with a query ←
14:41:05 <AndyS> I'm hestitate about update - seems to mean update needs changing as well and overlaps with INSERT DATA etc.
Andy Seaborne: I'm hestitate about update - seems to mean update needs changing as well and overlaps with INSERT DATA etc. ←
14:41:20 <ivan> LeeF: there is an hesitation about using this with update
Lee Feigenbaum: there is an hesitation about using this with update ←
14:41:42 <pgearon> +q
Paula Gearon: +q ←
14:41:46 <LeeF> ack pgearon
Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon ←
14:41:47 <ivan> ... AndyS also points out that interferes with insert/delete
... AndyS also points out that interferes with insert/delete ←
14:42:00 <ivan> pgearon: i would mention a use case for binding
Paula Gearon: i would mention a use case for binding ←
14:42:15 <AndyS> q+ to ask about BINDING position (after update discussion)
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask about BINDING position (after update discussion) ←
14:42:18 <kasei> also, BINDINGS with UPDATE probably doesn't belong in the fed document (SERVICE isn't defined specifically for UPDATE, right?)
Gregory Williams: also, BINDINGS with UPDATE probably doesn't belong in the fed document (SERVICE isn't defined specifically for UPDATE, right?) ←
14:42:51 <ivan> ... if you have a query for federation, you may execute part of the query on one host and use the result of that you can go to another place with some of the variables already bound, and that can dramatically reduce time
... if you have a query for federation, you may execute part of the query on one host and use the result of that you can go to another place with some of the variables already bound, and that can dramatically reduce time ←
14:43:12 <ivan> ... so having binding has a real use case where can have dramatic effects
... so having binding has a real use case where can have dramatic effects ←
14:43:21 <ivan> ... in terms of insert/delete I do not see that too much
... in terms of insert/delete I do not see that too much ←
14:43:34 <AndyS> kasei - good point - sees to be about the input to the endpoint, not the federating query engine.
Andy Seaborne: kasei - good point - sees to be about the input to the endpoint, not the federating query engine. ←
14:43:41 <kasei> in fact, unless BINDINGS is defined as normative in the query doc, it puts a burden on FED extensions to send off speculative queries first but require support for falling back to a non-BINDINGS-enhanced query.
Gregory Williams: in fact, unless BINDINGS is defined as normative in the query doc, it puts a burden on FED extensions to send off speculative queries first but require support for falling back to a non-BINDINGS-enhanced query. ←
14:43:43 <ivan> ... we can emulate bindings with subselects and unions and it is messy
... we can emulate bindings with subselects and unions and it is messy ←
14:44:13 <ivan> ... this particular syntax is useful, but only for select
... this particular syntax is useful, but only for select ←
14:44:29 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
14:44:29 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about BINDING position (after update discussion)
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask about BINDING position (after update discussion) ←
14:44:53 <ivan> AndyS: minor point, i have binding in the grammar but after all clauses
Andy Seaborne: minor point, i have binding in the grammar but after all clauses ←
14:45:20 <ivan> ... we had a discussion on the mailing list but it is not yet in the document
... we had a discussion on the mailing list but it is not yet in the document ←
14:45:36 <ivan> ... if everybody on the call has a consensus, then I can catch eric on that
... if everybody on the call has a consensus, then I can catch eric on that ←
14:45:48 <ivan> ... i will ask him to just make it so
... i will ask him to just make it so ←
14:46:16 <kasei> q+ to ask about moving BINDINGS to the query document
Gregory Williams: q+ to ask about moving BINDINGS to the query document ←
14:46:30 <LeeF> ack kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei ←
14:46:30 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to ask about moving BINDINGS to the query document
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, you wanted to ask about moving BINDINGS to the query document ←
14:46:57 <ivan> kasei: i believe that the federated is not required for implementations
Gregory Williams: i believe that the federated is not required for implementations ←
14:47:12 <ivan> ... but the service keyword is provided locally with the endpoint you are talking to
... but the service keyword is provided locally with the endpoint you are talking to ←
14:47:23 <ivan> ... the use of binding should be on the other endpoint
... the use of binding should be on the other endpoint ←
14:47:31 <ivan> ... it should be more on the query side of things
... it should be more on the query side of things ←
14:48:48 <pgearon> can we say that service descriptions are normative?
Paula Gearon: can we say that service descriptions are normative? ←
14:49:09 <ivan> LeeF: what if the bindings belong to the query document
Lee Feigenbaum: what if the bindings belong to the query document ←
14:49:15 <kasei> kasei: unless we require BINDINGS support for all query implementations, federated systems will likely have to send off speculative queries but may have to drop back to queries not using BINDINGS.
Gregory Williams: unless we require BINDINGS support for all query implementations, federated systems will likely have to send off speculative queries but may have to drop back to queries not using BINDINGS. [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ] ←
14:49:44 <ivan> ... are we ok requiring binding for all conformant sparql 1.1 implementations
... are we ok requiring binding for all conformant sparql 1.1 implementations ←
14:49:45 <kasei> kasei: either way, this is probably something that should go in the service description.
Gregory Williams: either way, this is probably something that should go in the service description. [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ] ←
14:50:17 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me ←
14:50:17 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted ←
14:50:32 <ivan> LeeF: what do other people think?
Lee Feigenbaum: what do other people think? ←
14:50:42 <ivan> (stunned silence, they do not think anything)
(stunned silence, they do not think anything) ←
14:51:30 <ivan> LeeF: I am inclined to... what am I inclined to do? I am inclined to peek eric's brain...
Lee Feigenbaum: I am inclined to... what am I inclined to do? I am inclined to peek into eric's brain... ←
14:51:36 <kasei> ... hesitantly think it should also be required.
Gregory Williams: ... hesitantly think it should also be required. ←
14:51:52 <ivan> s/peek/peek into/
14:52:17 <LeeF> topic: ISSUE-54
14:52:33 <LeeF> mailing list thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0487.html
Lee Feigenbaum: mailing list thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0487.html ←
14:52:35 <ivan> LeeF: putting property functions into service descriptions
Lee Feigenbaum: putting property functions into service descriptions ←
14:52:48 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile ←
14:52:48 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made ←
14:52:50 <ivan> ... this includes a proposed text
... this includes a proposed text ←
14:52:50 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
14:53:25 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
14:53:38 <ivan> ... AndyS proposed text how to include that into the description
... AndyS proposed text how to include that into the description ←
14:53:49 <ivan> ... steve and I indicated that we were happy with the proposed text
... steve and I indicated that we were happy with the proposed text ←
14:53:49 <kasei> for some reason I thought we had already resolved this issue...
Gregory Williams: for some reason I thought we had already resolved this issue... ←
14:54:01 <kasei> (already in the document)
Gregory Williams: (already in the document) ←
14:54:07 <ivan> ... I would propose to accept this and add it to the document
... I would propose to accept this and add it to the document ←
14:54:25 <ivan> ... but it seems that greg is faster than anybody else (or travels in time) and has already done it
... but it seems that greg is faster than anybody else (or travels in time) and has already done it ←
14:54:33 <LeeF> http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#id0x2c8fdce0
Lee Feigenbaum: http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#id0x2c8fdce0 ←
14:54:49 <LeeF> """
Lee Feigenbaum: """ ←
14:54:51 <LeeF> 3.4.10 sd:propertyFeature
Lee Feigenbaum: 3.4.10 sd:propertyFeature ←
14:54:51 <LeeF> Releates an instance of sd:Service to a resource representing an implemented feature to the SPARQL Query or Update language that is accessed by using the named property.
Lee Feigenbaum: Releates an instance of sd:Service to a resource representing an implemented feature to the SPARQL Query or Update language that is accessed by using the named property. ←
14:54:51 <LeeF> sd:propertyFeature is an rdfs:subPropertyOf sd:feature. The rdfs:domain of sd:propertyFeature is sd:Service.
Souripriya Das: propertyFeature is an rdfs:subPropertyOf sd:feature. The rdfs:domain of sd:propertyFeature is sd:Service. [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:54:51 <kasei> sd:propertyFeature
Souripriya Das: propertyFeature [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ] ←
14:54:52 <LeeF> """
Lee Feigenbaum: """ ←
14:55:15 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me ←
14:55:15 <Zakim> kasei was already muted, kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei was already muted, kasei ←
14:55:28 <ivan> LeeF: I propose to close this issue
Lee Feigenbaum: I propose to close this issue ←
14:55:57 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-54 based on the current text for sd:propertyFeature in http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#id0x2c8fdce0, noting consensus in mailing list thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0487.html
PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-54 based on the current text for sd:propertyFeature in http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#id0x2c8fdce0, noting consensus in mailing list thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0487.html ←
14:56:10 <ivan> +1
+1 ←
14:56:19 <AndyS> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
14:56:21 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-54 based on the current text for sd:propertyFeature in http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#id0x2c8fdce0, noting consensus in mailing list thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0487.html
RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-54 based on the current text for sd:propertyFeature in http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#id0x2c8fdce0, noting consensus in mailing list thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0487.html ←
14:56:31 <LeeF> trackbot, close ISSUE-54
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ISSUE-54 ←
14:56:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-54 Do we need (descriptions of) property functions in SD? Is this in scope for us? closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-54 Do we need (descriptions of) property functions in SD? Is this in scope for us? closed ←
14:56:38 <LeeF> ISSUE-54: RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-54 based on the current text for sd:propertyFeature in http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#id0x2c8fdce0, noting consensus in mailing list thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0487.html
Lee Feigenbaum: ISSUE-54: RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-54 based on the current text for sd:propertyFeature in http://dristachi.site/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#id0x2c8fdce0, noting consensus in mailing list thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0487.html ←
14:56:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-54 Do we need (descriptions of) property functions in SD? Is this in scope for us? notes added
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-54 Do we need (descriptions of) property functions in SD? Is this in scope for us? notes added ←
14:56:59 <ivan> topic: check in our document for readiness
14:57:21 <ivan> LeeF: we ask our editors to get the documents into reviewable stage and move to publication asap
Lee Feigenbaum: we ask our editors to get the documents into reviewable stage and move to publication asap ←
14:57:55 <ivan> .... andy: summary on query?
.... andy: summary on query? ←
14:58:37 <ivan> AndyS: i added some more stuff on negation, minus and not exist, and added examples for minus, steve added stuff on aggregates (some formatting problems)
Andy Seaborne: i added some more stuff on negation, minus and not exist, and added examples for minus, steve added stuff on aggregates (some formatting problems) ←
14:59:35 <ivan> LeeF: it sounds that we can have somebody to review now
Lee Feigenbaum: it sounds that we can have somebody to review now ←
14:59:46 <MattPerry> i can review it
Matthew Perry: i can review it ←
14:59:50 <ivan> AndyS: yes, it is messy, but it is only a working draft, so that should fine
Andy Seaborne: yes, it is messy, but it is only a working draft, so that should fine ←
15:00:03 <LeeF> ACTION: MattPerry to review SPARQL Query document for issues, concerns, praise, and publication-readiness
ACTION: MattPerry to review SPARQL Query document for issues, concerns, praise, and publication-readiness ←
15:00:03 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - MattPerry
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - MattPerry ←
15:00:08 <LeeF> ACTION: Matt to review SPARQL Query document for issues, concerns, praise, and publication-readiness
ACTION: Matt to review SPARQL Query document for issues, concerns, praise, and publication-readiness ←
15:00:08 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt ←
15:00:13 <LeeF> ACTION: Matthew to review SPARQL Query document for issues, concerns, praise, and publication-readiness
ACTION: Matthew to review SPARQL Query document for issues, concerns, praise, and publication-readiness ←
15:00:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-230 - Review SPARQL Query document for issues, concerns, praise, and publication-readiness [on Matthew Perry - due 2010-05-11].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-230 - Review SPARQL Query document for issues, concerns, praise, and publication-readiness [on Matthew Perry - due 2010-05-11]. ←
15:00:31 <ivan> LeeF: property path document?
Lee Feigenbaum: property path document? ←
15:01:06 <ivan> AndyS: I have not done any work since last publication
Andy Seaborne: I have not done any work since last publication ←
15:01:20 <ivan> ... duplicates and negated property paths are to be added
... duplicates and negated property paths are to be added ←
15:01:32 <ivan> LeeF: we are not required to publish every document for a heartbeat, so that is fine
Lee Feigenbaum: we are not required to publish every document for a heartbeat, so that is fine ←
15:01:34 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:01:34 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should no longer be muted ←
15:01:40 <ivan> LeeF: Greg, descriptions
Lee Feigenbaum: Greg, descriptions ←
15:02:02 <ivan> kasei: I wanted to have a link to the serialization format, ivan just did that, will do it
Gregory Williams: I wanted to have a link to the serialization format, ivan just did that, will do it ←
15:02:22 <ivan> ... the naming of named graphs in datasets is still missing
... the naming of named graphs in datasets is still missing ←
15:02:38 <ivan> ... I would like to hear sandro's response on andy's examples, but they look good
... I would like to hear sandro's response on andy's examples, but they look good ←
15:02:45 <ivan> ... the document is in a good shape
... the document is in a good shape ←
15:03:03 <ivan> ... we can sort out the naming issue for the next version, it is to go out today
... we can sort out the naming issue for the next version, it is to go out today ←
15:03:08 <ivan> LeeF: any reviewer?
Lee Feigenbaum: any reviewer? ←
15:03:27 <kasei> *crickets*
Gregory Williams: *crickets* ←
15:03:32 <ivan> (deep, deep silence)
(deep, deep silence) ←
15:03:40 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me ←
15:03:49 <ivan> LeeF: I will try to find somebody on the mailing list
Lee Feigenbaum: I will try to find somebody on the mailing list ←
15:03:51 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted ←
15:03:51 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to find 1 or more reviewers for the SD document
ACTION: LeeF to find 1 or more reviewers for the SD document ←
15:03:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-231 - Find 1 or more reviewers for the SD document [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-05-11].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-231 - Find 1 or more reviewers for the SD document [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-05-11]. ←
15:04:41 <kasei> I'd be interested in reviewing fed and property paths whenever they're ready for that.
Gregory Williams: I'd be interested in reviewing fed and property paths whenever they're ready for that. ←
15:05:15 <ivan> LeeF: I have to put up a poll for the negation issue, will do soon
Lee Feigenbaum: I have to put up a poll for the negation issue, will do soon ←
15:05:19 <ivan> adjurned
adjurned ←
15:05:24 <Zakim> -chimezie
Zakim IRC Bot: -chimezie ←
15:05:43 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
15:05:44 <ivan> zakim, drop me
zakim, drop me ←
15:05:44 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected ←
15:05:44 <MattPerry> bye
Matthew Perry: bye ←
15:05:44 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: -Lee_Feigenbaum ←
15:05:46 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:05:48 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:05:50 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:05:57 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby ←
15:06:03 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:06:06 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
15:06:07 <Zakim> Attendees were pgearon, kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, MattPerry, Ivan, AndyS, Orri, OlivierCorby, chimezie, EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pgearon, kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, MattPerry, Ivan, AndyS, Orri, OlivierCorby, chimezie, EricP ←
15:33:06 <bglimm> ups, I missed the call right?
(No events recorded for 26 minutes)
Birte Glimm: ups, I missed the call right? ←
15:33:18 <bglimm> I am in Canada, so got time zone confused...
Birte Glimm: I am in Canada, so got time zone confused... ←
15:34:02 <kasei> yup. over for 30 minutes now :\
Gregory Williams: yup. over for 30 minutes now :\ ←
15:34:11 <bglimm> :-(
Birte Glimm: :-( ←
Formatted by CommonScribe